| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
249
   |
Posted - 2014.01.21 01:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:-1
LP are awarded for loyalty. It doesn't make sense for the corporation in question to payout if some complete stranger walks into the LP store with your loyalty points.
So what ?
Loyalty points are already treated more as a currency than a measure of loyalty. They bear more resemblance to scrip than anything else. It even fits the purpose of scrip, as it's used to pay capsuleers in something other than ISK.
It's not like the lore treats capsuleers as being loyal to anything but their own wallets.
As someone in faction warfare, I've got a list of things I don't like about the current way to cash out LP. All of which can be fixed if there was an LP market, as I could just outsource it all to someone else:
- Deciding which items are the best to cash out with takes more market research than I enjoy. This is the best site I've found to help but the highest sell order ratios are items that probably won't sell and, while the highest buy order ratios are for items that will sell, but if I'm making my own sell order I can often find better items further down the list.
- Even once I've picked an item, I often buy too much of it. Trying to find a good quantity not fun for me, and finding one just means I'll have to pick another item to cash out with.
- FW NPC stations are usually not trade hub stations. Which means that if I want a good price I'll have to either haul the stuff out myself while at war when I know there is usually an enemy or two in the trade hubs I'm flying to or fly it with an alt I do not have. Remember, FW was designed as a way for players to learn PvP. Including players new to Eve who want to PvP, not to haul stuff around.
- Some of the goods, like navy cap boosters, are very bulky. Which means the hauling will need to be done with an industrial. Which many new players to FW will not have trained for a while.
If I could trade LP, then I'd just sell my LP to someone else and let them worry about those details. Chances are they will enjoy the trading side a lot more than I do. Sure, I'll get a bit less for my LP than I would if I did it myself, but that's an acceptable cost for my convenience.
Two other beneficial side effects of an LP market:
- Increased ISK sink from the taxes of the LP market.
- High sec missioners now have more transparency about which corps are more profitable to run missions for, as the ISK:LP ratio is the main difference and it will now be visible. Which will lead to missioners spreading out a bit as where they clump up the oversupply will lead to lower ISK:LP ratios for that corp. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
250
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 04:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Anomaly One wrote:+1, really, lore ?
it makes perfect sense in the land of backstabbing and espionage to sell your loyalty points to others :p
And gives a chance for not everyone that wants to calculate every single LP item... The empires have perfect control on how much they like you, why would they not be able to keep track of how much LP you have (or lack there of) you have.
Here is a better question: Why should the Empires care if the capsuleer spending the LP is the same one who earned it or a different capsuleer who acquired it legally ? |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
250
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 08:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:I suggest CCP just make this EASY. Allow players to journal LP like shares from one player to the next. Let the players decide what it is worth. Let people make websites, etc. It'll take some Dev like 15 mins to do this and we are done with the issue.
Players won't really care about who they trade it to, only how much the LP is worth. I see no reason to treat them as anything beyond just another item on the market and contracts. Give players an interface they are familiar with. The market and contracts system do not require third party websites to function well.
At most, the only change will be to make the location irrelevant. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
251
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 03:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Swiftstrike1 wrote:-1
LP are awarded for loyalty. It doesn't make sense for the corporation in question to payout if some complete stranger walks into the LP store with your loyalty points. Exactly this.... Its like Air Miles. Loyalty Points are rewards to YOU for your loyalty to a corporation/entity. It makes no sense and to be honest there really isn't a good reason for this. EDIT: Also what the guy says below my post.
Comparing to air-miles doesn't work at all. There are already too many differences
In RL the customer/client is the traveler. In Eve, the corporation is the customer/client. Which means that in Eve LP flows from the customer. In RL air-miles flow to the customer.
LP flowing in the opposite direction is a very big difference. So big that your comparison does not hold.
But my comparison with scrip, that does hold. Scrip was used to pay workers instead of cash. LP is used to pay capsuleers instead of cash. In both cases, it's flowing to the person that provides the service. The differences between scrip and Eve LP all come in what you can do with them after you have acquired them.
Besides, lore should never be an excuse for bad gameplay. Do you have any gameplay arguments for preventing LP trading ? |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
252
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Loyalty Points wrote:As something of an authority on the subject, I don't think this is a good idea.
What makes you an authority on the subject ? |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
254
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 21:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
With the Encounter Surveillance System providing LP to nullsec ratters, how will my complaints about cashing out LP apply to nullsec ratters ? |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
255
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 22:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
If adjusting the code to make LP tradeable is too difficult for CCP due to it being questionable legacy code, here is a possible workaround:
- Create a consumable item that costs LP, and when used provides the user with that much LP for the same corp.
- List all these LP tokens on the market.
While this is a physical item, this will not cause problems with my complaints about LP and new pilots because the LP tokens will not need to be moved if created at the right station. People will pay more ISK for the LP tokens at the station they plan to spend the LP at than they would at a trade hub, because any token purchases at a trade hub need to be hauled back to a station of that corp. (excluding corps which have a trade hub in one of their stations).
So any player who just spends their LP on tokens in the most popular of their corps stations should just sell them there. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
289
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 21:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I would be in favour of a 'Letter of Recommendation' mechanism that pushed LP up to the Faction level allowing players to aggregate into Navy faction stuff, implants etc if they so wish. Making it tradeable above and beyond the listed goods at the corp/faction they were earned from just turns them directly into yet another form of currency.
LP is already used as a currency by both capsuleers and NPCs. Starting from the moment the NPC corp pays the capsuleer in LP. When we cash out LP, we don't buy stuff to use directly, we buy stuff that we can see for ISK.
The only difference between LP and a currency is that we can't trade it between each other. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
290
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 01:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:While i am not against having them tradeable, it could have economy balance implications and therefore could require more work than is justifiable for the gain.
When it comes down to it, the main cause of any change will be the change in people who are cashing out LP. Currently everyone, no matter how little they know about the Eve economy, has to cash out their LP themselves. So they make mistakes. With LP trading, the people who earn the LP sell it to players who know what they are doing and those players cash it out.
So any effects will be very similar to if CCP manages to educate everyone regarding the best way to cash out LP. If the economy is so fragile that educating the population is a problem, then the economy has serious issues. So, unless the economy has problems, I don't see how LP trading could cause any problems either.
Maybe CCP will need to tweak LP store prices. But that's it. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
290
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:Please use valid arguments to support your view, this is complete rubbish.
1. Making LP that is currently unused suddenly easy to convert and use is an Isk generater, not a sink, whether you tax it or not.
ISK changing hands from one player to another is not an ISK generator. An ISK generator generates ISK. Meaning it creates new ISK.
An ISK sink destroys ISK. So any time an NPC takes ISK, that's an ISK sink.
Quote:2. It is already easy to work out who is the best corp to work for and you have even linked a tool in the same post to do that for you. If people are too lazy to do that or can't be bothered to grind up the standings with a new corp, giving them access to items from other LP stores without having to grind the standing isn't going to encourage them to grind those standings.
Or when the player is new and doesn't know those tools exist.
Though it doesn't help that those tools, or at least the better publicized ones, are not enough for reliable cashing out of LP. Look at the ISK:LP ratios on sell orders and you will get an item that nobody wants to buy. Look at the buy prices and you're not getting the optimal items. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
290
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 19:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:If LP were tradeable anyone with them would simply have sold to the highest bidder who would effective;ly have been buying the ship. As it was the whole LP mechanism provided CCP with a great means to introduce new faction items and drive players to specific locations, with then provided more conflict as the mission runners got jumped more often.
Players would still need to farm the LP. So they would still be driven to the valuable LP sources. |
| |
|